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Okay, so uh and and can people see?

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The the title presentation
the title of the presentation

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Yes.

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Yes, okay.

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So, and then going on to the first slide.

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Can people see that?

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Yes, yes.

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Okay.

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So just Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Yes.

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Okay, so this is just a definition
of a rest rest rest rest rest rest

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rest rest rest restorative city.

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Um, it's a city in which organizations and
institutions are all trying to resolve

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conflict in a restorative rather
than a punitive way, by using

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mediation and other restorative practices.

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So, a little bit about Bristol.

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Um, I'll just pop on just so
that you can see where it is.

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This is where Bristol is.

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As you can see, it's um.

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Um

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Uh, a bit uh west of London, uh,
just before you uh pop over the

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new um bridge to Wales.

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Uh, so it's the kind of the biggest city in uh
south in in in in in in in

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in in in the southwest.

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So it's the largest city in southwest England.

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Population nearly half a million.

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It's quite quite diverse these days.

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Many people from many places.

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It's very hilly, so, but that leads to a
bit of segregation of neighborhoods and

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sometimes conflict.

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So the economy is built on creative media,
technology, electronics, and

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aerospace engineering.

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So those are the kind of things um it used
to be a a a a a a a a a a a a place for

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tobacco and um and and other more
industrial things, but it's now kind of

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media and electronics.

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Um

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And many new initiatives start in Bristol,
um, uh, including

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victim support that I used to work for,
and it draws young people to the city,

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so it's quite a quite a vibrant

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place.

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So just going back to the first
UK restorative city was Hull.

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And the way they got there was that there
was a primary school that was transformed by

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restorative practices.

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And that led to the the Hull
Center for Restorative Practices.

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And then they rolled out training for just
about everybody they could think of.

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So schools, youth centers, children's homes,
foster carers, all those, all those other

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institutions.

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And that's one way of becoming a
restorative city to uh undertake lots.

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Lots and lots of training so that everybody
is kind of singing from the same song sheet.

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However, there's also another route.

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So you can expand training if you're starting
from scratch, or you can bring projects together.

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Which is good if you have some restorative
justice projects already existing.

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And that's the case with Bristol.

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There were quite a few um projects
already existing, like Bristol

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mediation, now called Resolve West,
because it is wider than Bristol and

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does more than mediation as well.

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But um

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So

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They existed, and quite a few other restorative
initiatives, which we'll come to in a

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minute.

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Um

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But first, the common principles and
activities that we might expect to find in a

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restorative city.

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We're basically bringing
groups of people together.

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Um

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Practitioners, agencies, professionals,
um, everybody with an interest in

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restorative practice.

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And then meeting the needs
of the whole community.

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And dialogue leading to understanding.

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And that's a kind of in opposition to uh
other ways of doing things, which is just

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deciding and punishing.

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And hopefully this will be lead to
respectful relationships and dealing

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with.

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Conflict, constructively.

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Um

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I just need to to turn off this, um

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Turn off the caption settings
because they're getting in the way.

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Of the um

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Okay, never mind.

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So anyway, so um, and it's also
quite important to embed restorative

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attitudes in in in in in in in in in in
in in the policies that the city has.

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And sometimes you do uh have uh public
events to bring people together,

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conferences and so forth.

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Sorry, my my stuff my screen seems to be frozen.

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I I'm not being able to to go forward.

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Can somebody

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Uh, just click on your

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Powerpoint once.

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Okay.

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So now that is working, okay.

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Just check I'm on the right, right one.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Um

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So what happened in Bristol was

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That, um

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We we already had many projects,
so we were not starting from scratch.

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But

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The city council somehow got hold of the idea
from Hull and had a a a a

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a a a a a a a conference

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in two thousand and seven,
Bristol as a restorative city.

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But they didn't seem to realise that there were
already restorative initiatives going on in their

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very own city.

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Um, so um,
some of the local R R R R R R R R R R J

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practitioners were were a m m m m m m m m m m
more more than a little bit frustrated by this.

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So we formed a group to develop the idea,
and we held workshops on

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many topics like rest restorative justice.

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Um

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Uh, in with the the the the the the
the the the the the police views,

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restorative justice in hate crime,

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restorative justice in schools, and so on.

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And then uh the city council realized
that the this was a going concern, and

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they set up a the a restorative brittle board.

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And held a big conference and very
importantly appointed a project

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officer for a year full
time and a year half time.

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Because that could really help
to drive things forward.

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And we adopted the kind of um s sort
of strap line working together

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to resolve and repair harm.

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And this is a look at some of
the um restorative services.

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So you can see there's there are
quite there are quite a lot of them.

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Um Bristol mediation was busy
doing neighbor neighbor mediation.

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We had a project on homelessness.

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Um the Bristol police were involved
in in in in in in in in in in in in

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in in in in in in in in in in cases.

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probation was on board.

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And Bristol Reparation Service was
a separate service for young people

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to find ways of helping them to do
something positive if they have

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offended.

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Like sort of, um

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Working in an old people's home, or um, uh

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making amends to the community in other ways.

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Even the even nursery schools got on board.

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Um

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And um

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Mediation at work was the workplace mediation.

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And Salaam Shalom was a very interesting
project trying to bring um the

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Muslim and Jewish groups together.

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And first of all, they ran a joint radio
program and then they did some work in schools.

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And then Bristol youth offending team was
uh the youth justice rather, they they

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embraced it.

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And they are the only team where
they are expected by law to

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provide restorative justice.

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And then restorative approaches,
Avon and Somerset, was under the wing of

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Bristol mediation.

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Um, for any any any any any any any any
any any any cases referred by any agency.

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We also had a hate crime project,
which uh took cases where there seemed to

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be prejudice and um hate h h h h
h h h h h hate crime incidents.

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There was also um a policeman who
worked in Bristol prison did cases

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there.

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And the Forgiveness Project,
which is a national organization,

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uh, had a a a local

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project in the women's prison.

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Not very far from from Bristol.

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And we had restorative thinking
and even a parenting program.

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And

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There was a um a a a a a a a a a a a a
research project on sex offending within

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families, uh, to try to bring a
more restorative approach there.

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So that's quite a lot.

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A lot of a lot of projects.

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And of course we were trying to encourage more.

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So

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Um part of of having a a a
a a a a a a a a a worker.

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Uh, to um

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to kind of drive things forward was we were
able to articulate our values and we were

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able to develop standards
and a membership scheme.

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And then we ran conferences and workshops
and encouraged people to start new projects.

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And publicity was also very
important to make people more aware.

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of of the um the initiatives.

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Um I can remember one of the things we did was
to have a stand in the main shopping center.

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Um and

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I think probably.

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Most people, if you say if you ask them about
restorative justice, they would have no

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clue about what that was.

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So it was um an an attempt to to
help just ordinary people know

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more about it.

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So what went wrong?

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Because Bristol isn't is isn't trying
to be a restorative city anymore.

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Um, which I'm quite sad about.

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So the first thing that that that that that that
that that that that that that went wrong was

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was was Brexit in two thousand and sixteen.

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And that led to a lot of European
professionals leaving of their own

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accord or not being allowed to come and join us.

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Uh, and that affected m many,
many institutions because there were a

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lot a lot of people from many countries
in in Europe who were working al

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alongside people in Britain, um,
because we were all part of Europe, and so

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people could travel and just uh take a job.

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Um

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in another European country, um, if if if if if
if if if if if if it suited their uh professional

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skills.

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So we lost we lost those,
and then that sort of left left gaps that were

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difficult to fill.

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And then we had a a a a a a a a a a
a national cutback of of of of of of

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of of of of all local authorities.

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Um, this was under the um
conservative government.

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Um, and so the the local authorities
were starved of money, so that

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Our uh worker, um,
by now half time was his contract was not

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renewed.

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And then the final nail in the coffin
was C C C C C C C C C Covid nineteen.

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And during that time

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And the way that Britain dealt with it
was that workers were given f f f f f f

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f f f f f f f f f f f f f f furlough,

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that means they were paid to stay at home.

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And so very little work took place.

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Meetings of the restorative
Bristol Board ceased, um, and and

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basically nothing happened for a couple of years.

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So then in2021 and2022,
we tried to start restorative, rest

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restart restorative Bristol,
but the city council was fragmented, and most

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importantly, key figures were no longer in post.

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When when the board started,
it had a very dynamic um head of the board who

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had a very senior position in the city council.

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And that meant that he could persuade people
lower down to to take the idea seriously

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and to do lots of training.

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Um, but he had uh been uh
moved to somewhere else, and

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um, the restorator Bristol.

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Portfolio had been handed to
somebody else who was not that

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enthusiastic.

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Um, and it got handed down the line to
somebody in quite a low position who had

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about uh ten or fifteen other
responsibilities as well.

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So he tried to keep the council the
the the the meetings going, but

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He no longer had time to actually do any work.

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He just managed to uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
uh uh uh keep the meetings going for um

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Uh a a little while,
and then not not not even not even that, because

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the city council had adopted other priorities,
um, and was going in a slightly

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different direction.

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Um, and just seemed to have
forgotten about restorative Bristol.

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Uh, just not interested anymore.

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Um

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So that was just so very disappointing.

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So in twenty twenty three, we just resign res res
res res res res res res res resigned ourselves

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that restorative Bristol has ceased.

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as um an an idea and an entity.

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But restorative work does continue because
many of the organizations that were part of

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it are still doing their stuff.

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So

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Um, Resolve West still does
um neighbor work, um, but

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on a smaller budget than before,
it also does restorative justice work, but

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again, on a much smaller budget than before.

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It had to move premises to a a
a cheaper place with less room.

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Uh, to survive.

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Um, but you know,
it's still it's still going strong.

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I I still do cases, uh, b both on the um

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The naval mediation side and also
on the restorative justice side.

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It still has about forty volunteers.

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00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:41,879
And

244
00:15:42,269 --> 00:15:47,470
Is in sort of, you know,
still very much um uh operating.

245
00:15:47,471 --> 00:15:52,909
And the youth defending team,
because they are obliged by law to do

246
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:56,429
restorative justice cases, they are still going.

247
00:15:56,430 --> 00:16:00,480
Um, I I don't know um how many.

248
00:16:00,929 --> 00:16:06,769
Other other organizations are doing things,
but um, you know, those those

249
00:16:06,770 --> 00:16:11,970
with with funding, um, can go forward,
and those without funding

250
00:16:11,971 --> 00:16:13,009
can't.

251
00:16:13,010 --> 00:16:18,049
So that's kind of, you know,
a kind of history of of just gen

252
00:16:18,050 --> 00:16:19,299
gently um

253
00:16:20,539 --> 00:16:22,659
Kind of gently kind of winding down.

254
00:16:23,950 --> 00:16:24,950
Um

255
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,639
And so just looking at the challenges
for storage cities,

256
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,960
I'm sure some of these will have been met

257
00:16:30,961 --> 00:16:33,279
by others as well.

258
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:34,279
So

259
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,809
Um funding austerity.

260
00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:44,240
Um leads los lots of staff and
the and the overburdened staff

261
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,039
who remain can't do as much work
as they would otherwise do.

262
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:54,320
So that's a kind of major,
kind of major thing is is if if um if if

263
00:16:54,321 --> 00:16:55,039
if if if if if if if if there's just

264
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,169
no money around,
it's quite difficult to to do much work.

265
00:16:59,929 --> 00:17:04,000
And then sometimes new policies
can undermine restorative work.

266
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,650
So one of the policies that um

267
00:17:09,618 --> 00:17:15,380
Uh, that that tends to un undermine
restorative work is is a sort of zero

268
00:17:15,381 --> 00:17:16,578
tolerance approach.

269
00:17:16,579 --> 00:17:22,180
I don't know if that happens in other countries,
but it's certainly a kind of factor.

270
00:17:22,181 --> 00:17:23,180
Um

271
00:17:23,868 --> 00:17:29,470
in sort of British organizations that that
people think that if you have a very strong uh

272
00:17:29,471 --> 00:17:34,509
policy where you do not tolerate certain
kinds of behavior, um, then that that that

273
00:17:34,510 --> 00:17:35,309
that that that that that that that that's the

274
00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:36,990
best way forward.

275
00:17:36,990 --> 00:17:38,400
And what usually brings

276
00:17:39,309 --> 00:17:45,309
um accompanies it is a very
punitive uh regime, so that

277
00:17:45,310 --> 00:17:49,519
if somebody steps out of line,
um, they just get punished.

278
00:17:50,059 --> 00:17:55,980
Um, and I think the whole ethos of restorative
work is that is that punishment is

279
00:17:55,980 --> 00:18:01,740
not a very good response to wrongdoing,
because it it doesn't it doesn't educate

280
00:18:01,740 --> 00:18:07,339
people into um what how how
their actions have have

281
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:08,589
harmed other people.

282
00:18:09,579 --> 00:18:10,579
Um

283
00:18:11,609 --> 00:18:14,130
And then what happened in Covid was a retreat.

284
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,880
to minimum legal requirements,
which means that there are

285
00:18:18,881 --> 00:18:19,890
certain things that people

286
00:18:21,019 --> 00:18:26,859
have to do, that organizations have to do,
uh, just to um to

287
00:18:26,860 --> 00:18:29,230
to to to to to to to to to to to to
to to to to to to to to to be legal.

288
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:35,579
Uh, and and when money is short,
then people have to do those, and they kind of

289
00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:41,180
regard anything else, no matter how wonderful,
as kind of icing on the cake or

290
00:18:41,181 --> 00:18:46,190
something that is is is is is is is is is is is a
kind of nice to nice to have, but not essential.

291
00:18:46,829 --> 00:18:50,720
And then gradually lower
standards become acceptable.

292
00:18:51,569 --> 00:18:56,369
Um, and this is a kind of cr a a a a a a a a a a
creeping a creeping thing that that that that

293
00:18:56,370 --> 00:18:57,490
that that that that that that that that that that
that that that that that that that that happens

294
00:18:57,490 --> 00:19:01,250
once um um um um um um um um um um um um um um
um um um um um um um m m m m m m m m m money

295
00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:03,490
is not available to keep things going in a

296
00:19:03,490 --> 00:19:04,490
proper way.

297
00:19:05,309 --> 00:19:08,819
And the other thing that happens,
I don't know again whether that

298
00:19:08,820 --> 00:19:10,470
happens in other countries, but

299
00:19:11,650 --> 00:19:14,450
Um, fund funding sources.

300
00:19:14,451 --> 00:19:17,009
They love something that is new and exciting.

301
00:19:17,010 --> 00:19:18,980
And once it is approved.

302
00:19:19,539 --> 00:19:25,539
uh and and viable and um looks like it
it it it it it it it it it it it it's

303
00:19:25,540 --> 00:19:29,940
it's it's something that um can go go
go go go go go go go go go forward.

304
00:19:29,941 --> 00:19:34,549
People forget that actually you still
need some money to make it happen.

305
00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:37,549
And um, so meanwhile.

306
00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:44,000
And very good, viable projects are
left starved of money and wither

307
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:49,759
away because the funding has gone to something
new and exciting looking that seems to

308
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,799
be um a kind of b b b b b b b b b blaze
the b b b b b b b b b blaze the trail.

309
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,009
Uh, and that's that's a kind of a

310
00:19:58,269 --> 00:20:04,269
I'm kind of continuing concern that that that um
that that that that that that that that that that

311
00:20:04,270 --> 00:20:07,789
funders are always looking for
something new um and and and and and

312
00:20:07,790 --> 00:20:08,789
and and and and and and forget that

313
00:20:09,549 --> 00:20:15,390
the good and viable programs um
needs sustaining in the long

314
00:20:15,391 --> 00:20:16,390
term.

315
00:20:16,460 --> 00:20:22,059
And so restorative justice just gets
lost in the turmoil of all these

316
00:20:22,060 --> 00:20:27,900
other things happening in local
authorities and in cities, and just

317
00:20:27,901 --> 00:20:29,710
gets and just gets lost.

318
00:20:33,150 --> 00:20:35,140
So what works in getting there?

319
00:20:35,141 --> 00:20:36,230
What what what else?

320
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:41,269
Could we have done or what what what what what
what what what what what what um things helped?

321
00:20:42,049 --> 00:20:46,740
So one of the key things was
is empowering key decision.

322
00:20:47,250 --> 00:20:52,130
makers to make collaborative
decisions towards restorative change.

323
00:20:52,131 --> 00:20:57,730
And I think here we we we we didn't
have enough key decision makers

324
00:20:57,730 --> 00:20:59,220
working towards this.

325
00:20:59,779 --> 00:21:00,779
Um

326
00:21:01,049 --> 00:21:06,049
And then you have to allocate or re
allocate resources to follow that.

327
00:21:06,849 --> 00:21:09,299
And the next um

328
00:21:10,349 --> 00:21:11,069
Point.

329
00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:15,069
We need one needs to ensure
sufficient buy-in from city leaders.

330
00:21:15,070 --> 00:21:19,869
And this is the one thing that one
major thing that Bristol fell down on.

331
00:21:19,870 --> 00:21:25,789
We lost the city leaders
who um were going to take

332
00:21:25,790 --> 00:21:30,880
take it forward and make it a real
reality within the city council.

333
00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:32,710
So

334
00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:38,630
At its peak, we had um the we had the the the the
the the the the the the the the the the leader

335
00:21:39,390 --> 00:21:40,390
Um

336
00:21:40,509 --> 00:21:46,500
Who was in a high position in the city council,
and he brought in all the heads of sections, and

337
00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:50,180
they were all there as well,
and they were all training their sections.

338
00:21:50,181 --> 00:21:55,940
But once uh the the leader um
uh didn't uh was no longer

339
00:21:55,941 --> 00:22:01,619
there, uh, the leaders of sections
thought they had other more important

340
00:22:01,620 --> 00:22:06,019
things to do than to attend the
restorative justice meetings.

341
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:09,829
And you see this very much as
well with schools, if you have

342
00:22:10,309 --> 00:22:15,579
If you have the head teacher on board,
um, then things will go forward.

343
00:22:15,580 --> 00:22:21,259
If it's if it's just a lone teacher, um,
taking it forward and the head teacher is not

344
00:22:21,260 --> 00:22:23,470
interested, it just doesn't go very far.

345
00:22:25,309 --> 00:22:30,980
The other mistake I think that Bristol made was
it didn't include enough of the restorative

346
00:22:30,980 --> 00:22:34,150
justice champions when they wanted to f um um

347
00:22:35,420 --> 00:22:40,210
To form the board,
they wanted it made up of city council

348
00:22:40,211 --> 00:22:46,130
leaders, the head of education,
the head of social services, and so

349
00:22:46,131 --> 00:22:47,130
on.

350
00:22:47,740 --> 00:22:50,380
And they didn't want, um,
they they they they they they they they

351
00:22:50,381 --> 00:22:53,339
didn't want to include the restorative

352
00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:57,900
justice champions, um uh, alongside that.

353
00:22:57,901 --> 00:23:01,019
They saw them as being too too much.

354
00:23:01,020 --> 00:23:05,069
So there were only two of us who were
allowed to sit at the table with the

355
00:23:06,059 --> 00:23:11,150
um restorative Bristol board
myself myself and the um

356
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,769
The very dynamic head or uh resolve west.

357
00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:20,529
Um, and I think you really
need to have that that that

358
00:23:22,619 --> 00:23:26,430
The the the R J ch champions who've
who brought the movement along.

359
00:23:27,779 --> 00:23:28,779
Uh.

360
00:23:28,829 --> 00:23:34,589
And to to make sure that they are there,
because they can help keep things going when uh

361
00:23:34,590 --> 00:23:35,680
organizational.

362
00:23:36,980 --> 00:23:40,150
Uh, um, people are kind of faltering.

363
00:23:40,829 --> 00:23:46,670
And then you have to say, don't give up,
because embedding culture takes c c c c

364
00:23:46,671 --> 00:23:48,400
culture change takes time.

365
00:23:49,779 --> 00:23:50,779
Um

366
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:54,529
We we tried,
I think we tried very hard on that score.

367
00:23:54,980 --> 00:23:57,670
Um, but it wasn't it wasn't quite enough.

368
00:23:59,250 --> 00:24:00,250
Um

369
00:24:00,670 --> 00:24:06,589
But, you know, we hope maybe one
day it it can actually um be

370
00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:08,190
resurrected.

371
00:24:08,191 --> 00:24:10,480
And the other thing is to be inclusive.

372
00:24:10,910 --> 00:24:14,029
And to engage individuals at all levels.

373
00:24:14,030 --> 00:24:17,200
It's it's not enough to just
have the heads of of um

374
00:24:18,180 --> 00:24:19,380
Different sections.

375
00:24:19,381 --> 00:24:22,579
You need to have everybody working on it.

376
00:24:22,580 --> 00:24:26,470
And in a school, for instance,
you need to make sure.

377
00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:33,059
That it's not just the uh the the head and the
senior management, but it needs to include

378
00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:34,259
all the teachers.

379
00:24:34,260 --> 00:24:37,859
And not just all the teachers,
but it needs to include all

380
00:24:37,860 --> 00:24:40,019
the other staff in the school.

381
00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:45,509
So that can be the the the people who um run

382
00:24:48,289 --> 00:24:49,289
Things like

383
00:24:51,450 --> 00:24:56,849
Who organized the kind of the
kind of dinner um people.

384
00:24:57,890 --> 00:24:59,700
And the uh um

385
00:25:00,670 --> 00:25:06,670
And the people who kind of keep the school
going at at a um in a kind of very

386
00:25:06,671 --> 00:25:07,670
practical way.

387
00:25:08,859 --> 00:25:12,289
And then you have to find some
way of measuring impact.

388
00:25:12,290 --> 00:25:17,460
Again, we didn't develop this very far in
Bristol, because it's actually quite difficult.

389
00:25:19,069 --> 00:25:24,269
I if you're if you're measuring impact of cases,
you know, are you going to

390
00:25:24,270 --> 00:25:26,720
measure um the number of

391
00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:31,940
Uh mediation meetings is successful.

392
00:25:31,941 --> 00:25:37,539
Are you going to measure the number of times

393
00:25:37,540 --> 00:25:42,420
that a restorative conversation
takes place in the school corridor?

394
00:25:42,421 --> 00:25:44,819
Um, hardly remarked one.

395
00:25:44,820 --> 00:25:50,309
So it was it was we didn't really find
a way of finding a kind of measure.

396
00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:52,900
Of um

397
00:25:53,660 --> 00:25:56,059
Um, that that would actually make sense.

398
00:25:56,060 --> 00:25:57,950
You know, you could you can you couldn't count.

399
00:25:58,930 --> 00:26:02,529
Sometimes you can count things
that are not important.

400
00:26:02,530 --> 00:26:04,609
Um, but you you you you you you you you
you you you you you you you you you you you

401
00:26:04,610 --> 00:26:07,089
you you can't sort of count the kind of

402
00:26:07,090 --> 00:26:09,380
change in.

403
00:26:10,109 --> 00:26:15,440
The qualitative change in in a
a school or institution when um

404
00:26:17,049 --> 00:26:20,450
Um, restorative practice is is the norm.

405
00:26:21,460 --> 00:26:25,190
So that's I think still something that.

406
00:26:25,599 --> 00:26:28,960
that we didn't we didn't really manage to do,
although we we we we we we we we we we we tried.

407
00:26:28,961 --> 00:26:31,119
We could see that we needed to do it.

408
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,450
And it will be interesting to
hear from other speakers.

409
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,519
Whether they manage to measure
their impact in some way.

410
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,640
And there must be a lot of
different ways of doing it.

411
00:26:42,641 --> 00:26:45,650
Um, and some maybe more.

412
00:26:46,859 --> 00:26:48,940
successful than others.

413
00:26:48,941 --> 00:26:52,349
But I think it's something, obviously,
that we all have to look at.

414
00:26:55,549 --> 00:26:58,079
So, I'm just finished with this, um.

415
00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:05,200
conclusion that um our our goal will be
reached when restorative approaches become the

416
00:27:05,201 --> 00:27:09,170
norm and that simply this is the
way we do things around here.

417
00:27:10,210 --> 00:27:12,579
Um, and we got part of the way there.

418
00:27:13,019 --> 00:27:15,980
Uh, but we didn't get as far as we wanted.

419
00:27:15,980 --> 00:27:21,869
And it will be very interesting to hear from
other speakers about the ways that they

420
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:25,279
I can uh arrive at this goal.

421
00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:29,359
So I think that's all I have to say.